technical hell again

[calimac]

This is technical hell, not bureaucratic hell, because the bureaucracy is not really the problem, the technology is the problem.

A few days ago our tv set stopped working. If we turned it on, we got an error message saying it couldn't connect to the wireless network. (The wireless network is otherwise fine, a point I had to keep making to the technicians I talked with.)

Having been otherwise occupied earlier, I've spent most of my New Year's Day in phone calls and chats, first with my ISP (AT&T), which had me cancel the network and try to reinstall it, which didn't work. They said they could find no problem, so it must be the tv set. The tv manufacturer couldn't find any problem with the tv set, so they said the ISP must have updated to 5G, which my tv set (which is only two years old) can't handle. I should have known enough to point out to them that we're on copper wire, which AT&T told me couldn't handle 5G, so we were on exactly the broadband width that the manufacturer told me to tell the ISP to put me on.

Impasse. AT&T is going to send me new equipment, which will come in over a week. I doubt that will help either.

Comments

[voidampersand]

I am sorry you are having to deal with crummy technology. We seem to be living in a PKD / Sladek / Sheckley future instead of the desired Asimov / Heinlein future where things just work.

I do not recommend connecting any TV directly to the network, whether it is wifi or ethernet. From what I have read, some of the most popular smart TVs have firmware that is actively infringing viewer's privacy and is full of dark patterns. I do not know of any smart TVs that can be trusted.

I recommend using a dedicated streaming device. They are far more trustworthy to connect to your network than a TV. You can turn off the networking in the TV. It just gets video and audio from the streaming device. This is also simpler for troubleshooting. There aren't that many kinds of streaming devices. Their whole job is to connect to a network and deliver video and audio to the TV.

The best streaming device for privacy is the Apple TV 4K. It is the most expensive at $129 for wifi or $149 for wifi + ethernet. But it does the least tracking of your viewing and is the most trustworthy streaming device that I know of. You get what you pay for. Roku and Google offer streaming devices with equivalent functionality for $80. Roku has wifi-only streaming sticks for less than that. I have more concerns about privacy with the Roku and Google devices, but at least they will be better than a cheap streaming device that has insecure firmware. The Apple, Roku and Google devices will be better than any TV. TVs are the worst and most of their smart functionality needs to be disabled so they don't track you.

I have an Apple TV 4K which is connected to wifi. I'm happy with it. But part of that is I can use my iPhone as a remote. The Apple TV remote app on the phone is much nicer than the Apple TV remote hardware.

[calimac]

Thanks for the advice, but I'm bewildered because I've never heard of this. Does the device replace the receiver that AT&T is sending me, or does it go between the receiver and the network? If the latter, how does it hook up, given that the receiver directly accesses wifi? Is there a more formal term than "dedicated streaming device" that I can look up different brands/models by?

[benbenberi]

The device in question attaches to your TV generally through the HDMI port, is recognized by the TV as an input source, and connects directly to your home wifi network. Once you've connected it, you can load all your streaming apps onto ir (they generally come with a few popular ones already installed, & use an app store to get others), log into your accounts, and use the device as your access to watch everything, with the TV reduced to a dumb display. I don't know about the AT&T receiver you're expecting. Do you have a router for your wifi network, or is that what the "receiver" does? In the latter case you will need to use it for that purpose, but it wouldn't have anything directly to do with the tv. The streaming device does it all.

The best streaming devices are the Apple TV, Roku, and Firestick (Amazon) lines. I personally like Roku best, as it has a super-simple interface, a very simple but functional remote, and the biggest app store that's full of all sorts of curious niche streamers. Also you get the Roku Channel with it, that has a ton of content of all sorts if you choose to look around. But if privacy is a top concern, Apple is the way to go.

One more advantage of using a streaming device rather than a "smart" tv for your streaming -- technology changes quickly. A TV display has a much longer life expectancy than any streaming protocol built into it. With an inexpensive external device that doesn't matter -- you can swap out an obsolete one for a latest-and-greatest version anytime you want for a modest cost. and the big display can keep on displaying undisturbed till it reaches the end of its days several tech cycles down the road.

[wild_patience]

The HDM1 port on our tv is for our DVR. I still do most of my tv viewing on network tv, not streaming services. I can stream from my computer. I can't stream network tv.

[benbenberi]

If you have cable tv. check with your cable provider if they have a streaming app. When I still had a subscription, I used the app from Xfinity instead of a cable box. It did all the same things with none of the technical complications. There are also streaming services like YouTubeTV or Hulu Plus Live that stream network tv along with lots of other cable channels.

[calimac]

The receiver is a device that attaches to the tv set. It is not the router. The router is a separate device. They're replacing that too.

[voidampersand]

The only reason for connecting the TV to the wireless network is to watch TV programs streamed over the internet.

If you only want to watch broadcast over the air programming, or recorded programming, the TV does not need to connect to the wireless network. It should be possible to go into the TV settings and turn off networking. Delete any network names and passwords. Make sure the TV is not connected to a wired ethernet network either. Basically, the idea is to turn the smart TV back into a dumb TV as much as possible.

If you want to watch TV programs streamed over the internet, you could connect the TV to the internet via wifi or ethernet to the DSL modem and the AT&T copper wire. Except that's not working, and even if it did, I would not recommend it, because TV sets are the worst for not respecting privacy.

If the TV is connected to a DVR and the DVR supports streaming video, then the DVR could be connected to the internet via wifi or ethernet to the DSL modem etcetera.

If you want streaming video and the DVR does not support it, and the TV has an extra HDMI port, you can get a streaming device and plug it into a HDMI port on the TV.

https://www.apple.com/apple-tv-4k/
https://www.roku.com/products/players
https://store.google.com/product/google_tv_streamer?hl=en-US
https://www.amazon.com/firetv/streaming-media-players

From the point of view of the TV, it is just another video input that can be selected. This is good, because it allows you to configure the TV as a dumb TV and keep it off your network. Only the streaming device has to connect to the internet.

[calimac]

As frequently, I feel more lost after this explanation than before it. Sorry!

We mostly only watch broadcast over the air programming on our tv, but we watch it through the internet connection. We don't watch it over the airwaves because we don't have an antenna, and we do occasionally watch cable channels. And I'm not going to go to the trouble of installing an antenna on a rented house.

I'm still not quite sure what "streaming video" means. Does it mean things like Netflix and Disney+? We can get those on our tv, though we usually watch them on the computer - or B. does, I don't watch Disney+ on my computer any more, because I get no sound from Disney+ and nobody has been able to solve that problem, and now I can't watch it on the tv either, because the tv is getting no signal from the wifi.

[voidampersand]

Streaming is a technology for sending time-based media over the internet. Netflix and Disney+ stream their own videos. In your case, somebody has an antenna and receives the local broadcast TV. They digitize the video and a streaming server sends the packets over the internet. Your TV receives the packets, decodes the video, and displays the frames on the screen.

I was not able to find anything about AT&T providing TV/cable service. They just provide phone and internet service. But you can use their internet service to connect to all the streaming video services. I assume that is what you mean by cable channels. Unless you are also subscribing to Comcast/Xfinity cable or something like that.

A good rabbit ears indoor TV antenna is around $20-$25 and works for the local TV stations.

[calimac]

No, AT&T has TV/cable service. They have two different services, in fact. The one we have is called UVERSE.

I'm remembering the trouble we had in my childhood getting a reliable signal from a big rooftop antenna, quite geographically close to here. Use a rabbit-ear? No friggin' way!

On top of which, I'm sure if I go to an antenna, the government will announce the discontinuation of over-the-air broadcast tv, on the grounds that nobody uses it any more. A few years ago there was some major change in broadcast signalling, and various experts, or people posing as experts, gave completely contradictory information on what it meant and how it worked. And I found that if I reported to a person holding one opinion what people said who held other opinions, hoping for some form of data reconciliation, all that happened was that the person I was reporting to got furious at me for retailing this guff.

My desire to avoid getting caught up in any further instance of this is intense.

[voidampersand]

Right, U-verse. I couldn't remember the name, went to the AT&T website, didn't see anything. But now you mentioned it, Wikipedia has an article on it. Apparently AT&T spun it off with DirectTV and rebranded their service as AT&T Internet. Anyway, U-verse is internet TV, so it's streaming. Is the DVR you are using your own DVR or one from AT&T? Does it have a wired connection to the internet? wild_patience said you have a DVR which is connected to the TV via HDMI which is a video cable. If the DVR is connected to the internet, it is essentially a streaming box, and you may not need to have the TV connect to the same internet wirelessly.