Star Wars, -30-

[calimac]

So some time thirty years ago this month, sturgeonslawyer and I and our friend Jo piled into her car, because she had one, and drove from our college down to the biig theatre (the one that features in Michaela Roessner's Vanishing Point, then unwritten) to see the new skiffy film.

And we watched it, and we came back out, and someone asked me, "So what did you think?" and I replied, "Not bad." That has remained my settled opinion. That it changed the cultural environment of SF film is beyond question. But the film itself? Not bad. A rousing cliched adventure story which at least was not boring, which is more than I can say for some of its successors, both in the series (Phantom Menace) and out (Raiders of the Lost Ark).

The series jumped the shark for me at the end of the second film, when Vader tells Luke "I am your father." I didn't believe it then, and I believe it even less now. It's a fudged-in retcon, I'm sure of it. Ghosti-Wan's abashed explanation in the third film, as to why he "lied" in the first one about Vader having killed Luke's father, is strained beyond credibility.

Also beyond credibility in the third film is the equally obviously retconned scene where Luke and Leia turn out to be siblings. We were watching that on first run - none of us knew what was going to happen - when Luke made the announcement to Leia. At that moment, liveavatar, sitting next to me, turned to me and said, "Somehow, I always knew." Followed immediately by Leia saying to Luke, "Somehow, I always knew."

Incidentally, that turns one scene in the second film, where Leia kisses Luke on the mouth to spite Han, into inc-st. LJ in its quest for purity should delete all Star Wars fans.

About the prequels, the less said the better. I once read a story in which the Beatles got back together for a reunion tour, and they were awful. Who'd have imagined, if something equivalent to that actually happened, how awful it really would be?

So if Star Wars isn't the greatest SF film of all time - and it has aged rather badly - what is? grrm says Forbidden Planet. I wouldn't. It's got a solid plot - not surprising since it's by William Shakespeare - but the actual writing is poor. And the acting! Except for Walter Pidgeon, who's fairly good as always, everybody in it is lifeless at best.

My list of the three greatest SF films has:

1. 2001: A Space Odyssey - a perfectly paced, awesome epic, beautiful to watch, and the special effects still hold up. Deep and complex enough to set the viewer thinking, but not too much so to understand.
2. The Man in the White Suit - a 1950 Ealing comedy about a meek scientist, played by Alec Guinness, who invents an indestructible fabric. The story is mostly about the social effects of the invention, which makes this one of the few SF films that could have been a leading story in the top-ranked SF magazines of its own day, instead of reflecting the SF of 30 or 40 years earlier.
3. Dark Star - one of the Gemini astronauts described the spacecraft as "an orbiting men's room." This is perhaps the only SF film to honestly depict that side of space travel. And funny, funny, and rather wistful too.

I made this list some years ago, and there have been good SF films since then, notably A Scanner Darkly last year, but I'll stand by this.

Comments

[fr-john.livejournal.com]

I decided not to see "Scanner" because a 5-minute preview caused me to feel as if my head might explode.

Top SF films. Hm. I've always been partial to the George Pal "War of the Worlds". I like "The Fifth Element" a lot. "2001" I saw 27 times in first run theatres. It impressed me alot. But talk about wooden acting...

[kalimac.livejournal.com]

There is no wooden acting in 2001. What there are is wooden characters. (The better to contrast their mundanity with the splendor of their setting.) Believe me, if the acting were bad, the film would look very different.

[fr-john.livejournal.com]

I'll concede the point.

[barondave.livejournal.com]

If science fiction is about "the social effects of the invention" and how technology effects the individual, then one of the best sf films ever made is Singing In The Rain.

[kalimac.livejournal.com]

A science-fictional invention.

[barondave.livejournal.com]

Define "science-fictional invention" so that it doesn't include a major technological upgrade to a revolutionary civilization-changing invention less than three decades old?

Singin' In the Rain is to motion pictures what Neuromancer is to the internet, only less bleak and with better dancing.

[sturgeonslawyer.livejournal.com]

All inventions are science-fictional.

One of my favorite "first contact with an alien culture" novels remains Shogun.

[asimovberlioz.livejournal.com]

How about Topsy-Turvy? Plenty of scenes showing people reacting to the uses and possible dangers of new technology*, and one of the strong subthemes is the interaction of our protagonists with members of an alien race.**

*   My favorite scene is the one where D'Oyly Carte explains the workings of a new-fangled fountain pen to Sullivan. It might have been a flux capacitor or a pocket frannistan, for all he knew.

**   Not to mention the subsumation of a semblance of their alien culture into an artwork whose true purpose is to poke fun at the locals.

[barondave.livejournal.com]

Gilbert & Sullivan have their fannish elements and they were writing in a period of great social and technological change, but Topsy-Turvey is historical. Is it sf if the story is about science fiction? In that case, I'll nominate 8 1/2.

Greatest SF

[sirbongzalot.livejournal.com]

Hmm? The problem of course is that so many of these movies quickly becomes dated as new and better sfx are created(Also the more the movie is sfx the less important the story seems to be).

Blade Runner, 12 Monkeys, Thirteenth Floor, Dark City, Matrix 1 and 2 or The Prestige.

If you include Anime... Akira, Ghost in the Shell

Or comedy, Galaxy Quest, What Planet Are You From? Buckaroo Bonzai

It's hard off the top of my head.

Re: Greatest SF

[sirbongzalot.livejournal.com]

Ouch I just remembered Earth Girls Are Easy, Truly a classic, if for no other reason than Julie Brown.

Re: Greatest SF

[kalimac.livejournal.com]

"The Prestige" takes a high place on the list of the most annoying movies I have ever seen.

[ellen-denham.livejournal.com]

I adored the first and second movies when they came out. Watching them now, their flaws are obvious, but they are still fun, unlike the later movies which didn't even manage that.

I wouldn't really consider Star Wars as science fiction, since there's no science or technology that is really integral to the plot. You could just as easily tell the same story in a low-tech fantasy world. You couldn't have a death star blowing up worlds, but if you change the scale, you could have, for instance, a dragon controlled by the Empire that destroyed cities.

I loved 2001 but have not seen the other two you mention. I will have to put them on my "to watch" list.

[cakmpls.livejournal.com]

The Man Who Fell to Earth is my favorite SF film, though I don't think I'm knowledgeable enough about anything to make a "greatest" or "best" list of it.

But I'm also very fond of one someone above mentions: Earth Girls Are Easy.

[kalimac.livejournal.com]

I saw Man Who Fell to Earth once, when it first came out. My dim recollection at this point was that I found the man's inability to convey his mission to be implausibly presented.

Earth Girls Are Easy is a very cute film, and I like it a lot, but it's not an example of the greatest of anything, even of silly comedies.

[marykaykare.livejournal.com]

Last time I saw 2001 I fell asleep. That *could* have been the recreational substances I had ingested, but I'm not seeing it again. My top 3?

Blade Runner, Blade Runner, and, oh, Blade Runner.

MKK

[kip-w.livejournal.com]

I said then that Vader was just yanking Luke's chain when he said that. Too bad Lucas didn't see it that way. The series started creaking when it began to take itself so seriously -- as did Lucas.

[ron-drummond.livejournal.com]

A month ago I saw Dark Star again for the first time in at least 20 years, and the scene in the elevator shaft is still hilarious, the bomb-talk-therapy session somewhat less so. But most of the rest of it noticeably dragged, due to very old fashioned pacing and shticks spun out way too long. I was somewhat embarassed because I talked a group of folks into watching it by calling it the funniest SF movie ever made, and then most of us, including me, didn't laugh through most of it -- but then by grab most of us laughed our heads off during the elevator sequence, so what the hey. I was off the hook anyway.

The film does portray some of the mundane downsides of space travel quite effectively, as you say. The special effects are still astonishingly serviceable given the zero budget. And I still liked how it set up and followed through on the character's quirks, with each getting the death they deserve or wish for. I definitely consider it to be at least a minor classic, though it wouldn't make my own top 5. Top 10, maybe, though I wouldn't have said so in the absence of your own high placement. Fun how that works.

My own list of bests would definitely include 2001 and Blade Runner, maybe The Day the Earth Stood Still, and quite possibly The Undiscovered Country (which at the very least is the best Star Trek movie), and I suspect that if I took the time to revisit films I haven't seen in a long time it might also include the original Planet of the Apes and Silent Running.

I am also very fond of the recent Michael Winterbottom film Code 46, which deserves a much wider audience than it seems to have so far received. fringefaan is a fan, and I'm happy to report so is Samuel R. Delany -- I recently sent him a copy, and after seeing it he called it one of the best SF films ever made.

But now that I think of it, TEN great SF flicks don't exactly leap to mind, do they? Others I might include, but would want to see again, are Brazil, 12 Monkeys, Dark City, and Gattaca.

And heck, I recently watched the alternate cuts of all four Alien movies and liked Alien Resurrection the best. Who woulda thunk.

[barondave.livejournal.com]

There's lots of good sf, if you're willing to stretch the definition a bit (as I am) or at least look back a little in history. Metropolis, The Cabinet of Dr. Caligari, Rocky Horror Picture Show, Dr. Strangelove, Ten Million Years To Earth, Moby Dick (hey, a great white whale that never dies!), Boys From Brazil, Kwaidon as well as several of the films mentioned here. Heck, I'm tempted to include one of my all-time favorites, The Discreet Charm of the Bourgeoisie.

Heck, I'll still hold out for Forbidden Planet. I don't particularly disagree with any of the criticisms, above, but the id monster scared the snot out of me when I was a kid. What a concept! That Shakespeare guy could really tap into our psyche.

Hmm... also, I think The Last Action Hero is underrated.

[kalimac.livejournal.com]

That's an interesting point. I haven't watched Dark Star in a long time, and The Man in the White Suit in even longer. But a long time passed in which I didn't see 2001, and to my surprise it still holds up very well. I'd have thought that's a movie that would date terribly.

I saw the first Alien film, and I will never see another. Never. I will escape from the room, or turn off the tv, or put a sleepshade over my eyes if it's on a plane. Never.

My all time greatest obscure SF film is something called The Quiet Earth. Seen it?

[randy-byers.livejournal.com]

Hey, I'm utterly delighted to hear that Chip enjoyed Code 46! I'd love to hear his thoughts on it.

I'll also take the opportunity to once again recommend Avalon, which is my other favorite SF movie of the noughties.

[sturgeonslawyer.livejournal.com]

So some time thirty years ago this month, sturgeonslawyer and I and our friend Jo piled into her car, because she had one, and drove from our college down to the biig theatre

Point of order: I believe we actually piled into a car from a Mytho meeting in San Hose (ay?) and went to the biiig theatre from there.

While I would not for a moment doubt that the series did the Mexican Shark Dance for you at that point, I do want to note that my father came out of the first movie in 1977 (well before any sequels were even announced) and informed me that Darth was Luke's father. "It's obvious from his name," he said. "Dark Father." Well, yeah, but... the point being, of course, that if someone who isn't even much of a skiffy reader picked that thread out that long in advance it clearly didn't exactly come out of nowhere.

On the other hand, I agree completely about Leia being Luke's sister (and would like to know if there is a significant Luke/Leia shipping community, but would not like to know quite badly enough to go looking for one).

[kalimac.livejournal.com]

You know, even in the 27 years since the revelation was made, I have never once seen this name-equation made in all the analyses of Star Wars that I've read. Even from people who feel obliged to point out that Luke sounds like Lucas.

I think what your father heard was a coincidence, on the level of the reasoning by which Nazgul is said to mean Nazi-ghoul.

It would require a really dorky author to have actually done this intentionally, and Lucas is dorky enough ... but if so, the "Dark Father" equation would have been just as valid if Vader had become Luke's symbolic father, or stepfather, or something.

And if Lucas had intended this all along, then it makes even harder the question of why did Obi-Wan lie? The retcon explanation at least offers the semi-excuse of "the author was desperately trying to scramble out of a hole he'd found himself in," but if he dug that hole deliberately - that's impossibly clumsy even from an author who thought that Jar-Jar Binks was a good idea.

[19-crows.livejournal.com]

I think my favorite science fiction movie might be Death Watch.

I hate to admit it, but I didn't understand 2001.

[barondave.livejournal.com]

Read the book, and a lot of Clarke.