expert testimony
Jun. 8th, 2014 09:07 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
calimacI want to thank all the baseball mavens who offered explanations for my query of yesterday. They put in a lot of effort for a necessarily small return, and it seems to me that some of the replies illustrate the problems inherent in having experts respond to questions from the ignorant, in any field (computers most emphatically included). Some of the comments tended to assume that I knew precisely what it was that I didn't know, and left me baffled as they then went on to explain in detail the parts that I did know. The net result was a dozen explanations more than should have been necessary.
Now that I've gotten it (I think) straightened out, here, to let you triangulate what you said against what I needed to hear, is the single comment that would have answered all my questions and solved all my puzzlement at once:
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You wrote, "[The second baseman] steps onto the plate at second. That puts out the runner who'd been heading from first to second."
That is incorrect. That runner is not yet out, because, since the batter is now out, this runner is no longer forced to proceed to second to make room for him. He is free to retreat to first. The runner who is out when the fielder touches second is the runner between second and third. When the ball is caught on the fly, and ONLY when it is caught on the fly, a baserunner who'd taken a lead down the basepath must return and tag the previous base - if he can get there before a fielder with the ball does - before proceeding on to the next base. Since he's forced to do so, the fielder tagging the base first puts that runner out.
At this point, the second baseman and first baseman can start chasing down the first-to-second runner on the basepath. An unassisted triple play will occur on the rare occasions that he's close enough to second for that baseman to catch him. More often the runner will be closer to first, which he'd had to go back and tag anyway (see above) and since, as you noted in another context, he can see the second baseman with the ball, so he may try to beat the throw back to first.
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Is that correct? And, more importantly, does the wording and specific content help you see why other explanations puzzled me?
Now that I've gotten it (I think) straightened out, here, to let you triangulate what you said against what I needed to hear, is the single comment that would have answered all my questions and solved all my puzzlement at once:
---
You wrote, "[The second baseman] steps onto the plate at second. That puts out the runner who'd been heading from first to second."
That is incorrect. That runner is not yet out, because, since the batter is now out, this runner is no longer forced to proceed to second to make room for him. He is free to retreat to first. The runner who is out when the fielder touches second is the runner between second and third. When the ball is caught on the fly, and ONLY when it is caught on the fly, a baserunner who'd taken a lead down the basepath must return and tag the previous base - if he can get there before a fielder with the ball does - before proceeding on to the next base. Since he's forced to do so, the fielder tagging the base first puts that runner out.
At this point, the second baseman and first baseman can start chasing down the first-to-second runner on the basepath. An unassisted triple play will occur on the rare occasions that he's close enough to second for that baseman to catch him. More often the runner will be closer to first, which he'd had to go back and tag anyway (see above) and since, as you noted in another context, he can see the second baseman with the ball, so he may try to beat the throw back to first.
---
Is that correct? And, more importantly, does the wording and specific content help you see why other explanations puzzled me?
